Navigate through the tree of knowledge, add new questions or answers, and rate those that have already been asked/answered.
<[QT]omgrawr> Hello all. Chat is about to begin, if you have questions, please PM them to the QTs.
<t20> wondered why it was so quiet all of a sudden
* kieron considers going -v on t20, then remembers t20's h4xing ability
<[QT]omgrawr> Greetings all and welcome to today's EVE-Online devchat hosted by OMGRAWR.NET. We have a gaggle of developers from CCP here with us tonight, thanks to them for coming! If you have a question for them, please PM someone with a [QT] tag. DO NOT PM the devs, or we will pwn you.
<kieron> Thanks, Rhaegar and the rest of the OMGrawr team for having us and to you the players for attending. You should know most of the Devs by now, but there are a couple recent additions.
<Hammerhead> Hi
<Oveur> Hi everyone!
<[QT]omgrawr> Right, lets go!
<Oveur> It's the usual suspects here and I think we'll just delve straight into the questions
<t20> wondered why it was so quiet all of a sudden
* kieron considers going -v on t20, then remembers t20's h4xing ability
<[QT]omgrawr> Greetings all and welcome to today's EVE-Online devchat hosted by OMGRAWR.NET. We have a gaggle of developers from CCP here with us tonight, thanks to them for coming! If you have a question for them, please PM someone with a [QT] tag. DO NOT PM the devs, or we will pwn you.
<kieron> Thanks, Rhaegar and the rest of the OMGrawr team for having us and to you the players for attending. You should know most of the Devs by now, but there are a couple recent additions.
<Hammerhead> Hi
<Oveur> Hi everyone!
<[QT]omgrawr> Right, lets go!
<Oveur> It's the usual suspects here and I think we'll just delve straight into the questions
<Oveur> We're looking at the next release in the late november / early desember depending on the QA effort required
<Oveur> I think we'll start boosting them after enough usage with Dreadnoughts in Siege has happened, we're seeing it happening more and more and we're getting some good feebback on that
<Oveur> We'll also look into the Jumpdrive ranges, the skill training required to get to certain parts of the universe is a bit high
<Oveur> We'll also look into the Jumpdrive ranges, the skill training required to get to certain parts of the universe is a bit high
<Oveur> Yes, we're looking at what we do for Kali with the agent mission system, Zrakor has an open feedback thread about it (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=233294)
<Oveur> Reworking some of the functionality of the loyalty point system is part of that. Something like more store-based behaviour, transfering of them within corp or faction, more balancing of the offers etc.
<Oveur> Reworking some of the functionality of the loyalty point system is part of that. Something like more store-based behaviour, transfering of them within corp or faction, more balancing of the offers etc.
<Oveur> First implementation we're looking at 8-10 factions, 4 empires of course and then at least 4 pirates
<Oveur> I think we should over the years allow for some kind of deeper interaction within all NPC corporations, but currently we'll focus on the warfare arms where players can rise in ranks for their major faction
<Oveur> I think we should over the years allow for some kind of deeper interaction within all NPC corporations, but currently we'll focus on the warfare arms where players can rise in ranks for their major faction
<Oveur> At this point in time, most likely not. The next release has a big focus bugfixing/optimization/improvements so it'll most likely end up together
<Oveur> That allows us to put in some bigger optimizations because we have more testing time on the more radical changes
<Oveur> That allows us to put in some bigger optimizations because we have more testing time on the more radical changes
<Oveur> I'll take it up with Zrakor to put in some important missions other than kill mission for those agents. It should be quite straightforward to add, but I think we should wait till a bigger overhaul of the mission system and other mini-professions so we can to make that really interesting
<Oveur> Our focus for agents is on the major factions, I doubt they will get any serious attention until we find a unique role for them. I think it's more likely CONCORD agents would be used for licensed bounty hunting or something of that sort
<Oveur> A number of reasons for this outlet. It's based on that each month, one of each of the tech 2 techs is put on auction with a very high minimum bid
<Oveur> With this, the market should over the long term regulate itself by itself determining if this high minimum - or in many cases, the bidding war - is worth spending the ISK on
<Oveur> Since you would assume that someone with enough capital and market speculation see long term profits in doing so
<Oveur It's not something we've decided to do, but since some of the tech 2 markets obviously seem to be undersupplied, we think this could help with reaching equilibrium>
<Oveur> Or at the very least sink out a lot of ISK from those that want to maintain their current competitive edge :)
<Oveur> However, we're far more keen on overhauling the whole Research and Development area of the game and the In Development section is a good example of that
<kieron> http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/indevelopment.asp
<Oveur> Providing the players with means to do active research, get limited rewards (limited-run bpc's) in exchange for various items gathered through mini-professions, complexes, agent running, reverse engineering etc.
<Oveur> And of course something as cool as scientific vessels used for researching specific technology in their environments, right Viceroy? ;)
<Oveur> With this, the market should over the long term regulate itself by itself determining if this high minimum - or in many cases, the bidding war - is worth spending the ISK on
<Oveur> Since you would assume that someone with enough capital and market speculation see long term profits in doing so
<Oveur It's not something we've decided to do, but since some of the tech 2 markets obviously seem to be undersupplied, we think this could help with reaching equilibrium>
<Oveur> Or at the very least sink out a lot of ISK from those that want to maintain their current competitive edge :)
<Oveur> However, we're far more keen on overhauling the whole Research and Development area of the game and the In Development section is a good example of that
<kieron> http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/indevelopment.asp
<Oveur> Providing the players with means to do active research, get limited rewards (limited-run bpc's) in exchange for various items gathered through mini-professions, complexes, agent running, reverse engineering etc.
<Oveur> And of course something as cool as scientific vessels used for researching specific technology in their environments, right Viceroy? ;)
<Oveur> Actually, Tux and Hammer are loooking into that
<Hammerhead> Tux is typing
<sir_tuxford> well the shield power relay is the second best module to boost your shield recharge rate
<Hammerhead> 460 eyes? [230 people in chat - red]
<sir_tuxford> it's just the flux modules that seem a lot subpar since pds does the same and more
<sir_tuxford> We've been messing around with cap flux coils, and shield flux coils are also worthy of a little bit of love
<Redundancy> HH - depends on how many pirates have eye-patches, and how many have parrots.
<Hammerhead> I was going to say that but people get sick of my spam
<sir_tuxford> should round up to 2 eyes per nick :-P
<Hammerhead> how many eyes with the new stacking nerf?
<[QT]omgrawr> ahem :P
<Hammerhead> Tux is typing
<sir_tuxford> well the shield power relay is the second best module to boost your shield recharge rate
<Hammerhead> 460 eyes? [230 people in chat - red]
<sir_tuxford> it's just the flux modules that seem a lot subpar since pds does the same and more
<sir_tuxford> We've been messing around with cap flux coils, and shield flux coils are also worthy of a little bit of love
<Redundancy> HH - depends on how many pirates have eye-patches, and how many have parrots.
<Hammerhead> I was going to say that but people get sick of my spam
<sir_tuxford> should round up to 2 eyes per nick :-P
<Hammerhead> how many eyes with the new stacking nerf?
<[QT]omgrawr> ahem :P
<Hammerhead> Just my opinion but that seems a little too griefable
<Valar|AFK> and powerful
<Hammerhead> unless these were new gates
* Rhae[out] perks
<Oveur> There are no capturable jumpgates coming up, the only scenario where we are considering capturable - as in conquerable jumpgates - and still with quite limited control, is for something like Constellation Sovereignty
<Redundancy> We were throwing around the idea of twinned starbase structures where you could jump between them though
<kieron> Something along that line is going down with Titans anyways, just not a permanent fixture.
<Oveur> So limited control would be like against war declared corps etc.
<Oveur> Yeah, Titans have a jumpate portal kind of thing slated for them
<Oveur> But no relinking of current gates or anything of that sorts coming, at most, current gate control would be limited to protecting your constellation
<Valar|AFK> and powerful
<Hammerhead> unless these were new gates
* Rhae[out] perks
<Oveur> There are no capturable jumpgates coming up, the only scenario where we are considering capturable - as in conquerable jumpgates - and still with quite limited control, is for something like Constellation Sovereignty
<Redundancy> We were throwing around the idea of twinned starbase structures where you could jump between them though
<kieron> Something along that line is going down with Titans anyways, just not a permanent fixture.
<Oveur> So limited control would be like against war declared corps etc.
<Oveur> Yeah, Titans have a jumpate portal kind of thing slated for them
<Oveur> But no relinking of current gates or anything of that sorts coming, at most, current gate control would be limited to protecting your constellation
<Oveur> the future of episodic content has been more focused on the player still paying for each episode. I agree, if the content is compelling enough and accordingly priced, it might work
<Oveur> but as you point out, ours are free and we consider them a part of the subscription you pay, constant evolution of the game
<Redundancy> down with episodic payments?
<Redundancy> I think it's a great thing about eve that you don't pay for expansions
<Oveur> But if we are at the forefront? Well, we're doing content patches and expansions like everybody else in this business, except we don't charge extra
<Oveur> So to some extent, sure ;D
<Oveur> With other models, we'll see what Steam will bring us in the near future
<Oveur> (Just to clarify, EVE is not using stem, "us" is meant as us players, since Steam has started episodic content)
<Oveur> but as you point out, ours are free and we consider them a part of the subscription you pay, constant evolution of the game
<Redundancy> down with episodic payments?
<Redundancy> I think it's a great thing about eve that you don't pay for expansions
<Oveur> But if we are at the forefront? Well, we're doing content patches and expansions like everybody else in this business, except we don't charge extra
<Oveur> So to some extent, sure ;D
<Oveur> With other models, we'll see what Steam will bring us in the near future
<Oveur> (Just to clarify, EVE is not using stem, "us" is meant as us players, since Steam has started episodic content)
<Oveur> Yes, sentries and other system defenses are part of our sovereignty master plan
<Oveur> It has always been better to gang up in EVE, this is nothing new
<Oveur> The gang skills and modules are already on tranquility, the usage of them is quite low (which is actually due to a number of reasons) but it's not affecting the behavior to any large extent
<Oveur> since afterall, blobbing is not exactly new either
<Hammerhead> Something I'd like to do is improve the gang UI and add subgroups or "squads". Then we could give certain bonuses to the smaller groups in the larger gang
<Oveur> Short term, both small and large gangs will benefit from increased defenses, stacking nerf aims to minimize the ganka setups and if the only defense smaller groups had against larger gangs is ganka setups (since you mention the stacking nerf) this change in itself is not the problem
<Oveur> And long term, like Hammer pointed out, we still have formations coming in
<Oveur> they will be limited in numbers
<Oveur> well, squad bonuses first, then formations
<Hammerhead> Also diminishing returns on certain command modules the more you have in your gang is something we've talked about. So you would want multiple smaller squads
<Oveur> especially advanced stuff where you pay a penalty in X to achieve a high Y bonus, meaning you really dont want a gang of 5 frigs and 5 battleships together since the gang bonuses that benefit frigs the most would draw back the battleships the most
<Oveur> The gang skills and modules are already on tranquility, the usage of them is quite low (which is actually due to a number of reasons) but it's not affecting the behavior to any large extent
<Oveur> since afterall, blobbing is not exactly new either
<Hammerhead> Something I'd like to do is improve the gang UI and add subgroups or "squads". Then we could give certain bonuses to the smaller groups in the larger gang
<Oveur> Short term, both small and large gangs will benefit from increased defenses, stacking nerf aims to minimize the ganka setups and if the only defense smaller groups had against larger gangs is ganka setups (since you mention the stacking nerf) this change in itself is not the problem
<Oveur> And long term, like Hammer pointed out, we still have formations coming in
<Oveur> they will be limited in numbers
<Oveur> well, squad bonuses first, then formations
<Hammerhead> Also diminishing returns on certain command modules the more you have in your gang is something we've talked about. So you would want multiple smaller squads
<Oveur> especially advanced stuff where you pay a penalty in X to achieve a high Y bonus, meaning you really dont want a gang of 5 frigs and 5 battleships together since the gang bonuses that benefit frigs the most would draw back the battleships the most
<Oveur> Currently, the plan is to add modules you can expand, like you point out and to upgrade each module. However, this might also be in the form of a more predefined upgrade path
<Oveur> that simply determined by the technical problems we encounter. So a minmatar outpoust might have 3 paths towards being a full fledged station
<Oveur> or we go the module addition and module upgrade so you add a factory, then add more capacity to the factory
<Oveur> until at some point you can upgrade to a minmatar station
<Oveur> that simply determined by the technical problems we encounter. So a minmatar outpoust might have 3 paths towards being a full fledged station
<Oveur> or we go the module addition and module upgrade so you add a factory, then add more capacity to the factory
<Oveur> until at some point you can upgrade to a minmatar station
<kieron> The hardware has made it in and testing has been completed. It will be installed next Wednesday during an extended maintenance period running from 0800 to 1600 GMT.
<kieron> You can see the details on the new equipment here: http://www.superssd.com/products/ramsan-400/
<kieron> Performance? Hard to tell, but it should be leaps and bounds better than spinning disks for storage.
<kieron> Think a USB flash drive versus a hard drive for speed
<kieron> Just remember that we have the fiber channel interface, instead of the 2.0 USB interface. ;)
<kieron> You can see the details on the new equipment here: http://www.superssd.com/products/ramsan-400/
<kieron> Performance? Hard to tell, but it should be leaps and bounds better than spinning disks for storage.
<kieron> Think a USB flash drive versus a hard drive for speed
<kieron> Just remember that we have the fiber channel interface, instead of the 2.0 USB interface. ;)
<Oveur> There are a number of things we're looking to there. We want to start some planetary interaction and in 0.0 there is obviously more of unclaimed planets available
<Oveur> We want planetary interaction to fit into a lot of current chains, such as manufacturing, research, complex reactions etc.
<Oveur> We also have combat boosters, which is based on a number of 0.0 COSMOS constellatiosn
<Oveur> which are really more like regions, since their unique resources bleed into the whole region
<Oveur> which then spawns new starbase structures like chemical labs etc.
<Oveur> We also want factional warfare to play some part here, since you will be fighting for some of the 0.0 factions
<Oveur> But that is a lesser focus, since 0.0 COSMOS is far more focused on providing a landscape upon which the players can build infrastructure
<Oveur> we also need to create more avenues for 0.0 infrastruture to be leased from the owner, opening up real incentives for the sovereign to want other people in his systems
<Oveur> since they create an steady income for the sovereign
<Oveur> this both applies to planetary interaction, leasing out things like a planet for other outposts under your protection and moons for starbases
<Oveur> this requires some advances of the sovereignty system obviously, but this stuff, like leasing and such would also be beneficial for empire, where we can allow players to rise and earn leases based on standing and performance, just like in the old roman armies where you got your little farmland after your tour of duty
<Oveur> Mix this all up together, I think we'll have something really interesting out there. We'd really like to spin in factional warfare there so that player empires can fight NPC empires for territory and resources, but that's easier said than done
<Oveur> but we'll die trying as usual
<Oveur> We want planetary interaction to fit into a lot of current chains, such as manufacturing, research, complex reactions etc.
<Oveur> We also have combat boosters, which is based on a number of 0.0 COSMOS constellatiosn
<Oveur> which are really more like regions, since their unique resources bleed into the whole region
<Oveur> which then spawns new starbase structures like chemical labs etc.
<Oveur> We also want factional warfare to play some part here, since you will be fighting for some of the 0.0 factions
<Oveur> But that is a lesser focus, since 0.0 COSMOS is far more focused on providing a landscape upon which the players can build infrastructure
<Oveur> we also need to create more avenues for 0.0 infrastruture to be leased from the owner, opening up real incentives for the sovereign to want other people in his systems
<Oveur> since they create an steady income for the sovereign
<Oveur> this both applies to planetary interaction, leasing out things like a planet for other outposts under your protection and moons for starbases
<Oveur> this requires some advances of the sovereignty system obviously, but this stuff, like leasing and such would also be beneficial for empire, where we can allow players to rise and earn leases based on standing and performance, just like in the old roman armies where you got your little farmland after your tour of duty
<Oveur> Mix this all up together, I think we'll have something really interesting out there. We'd really like to spin in factional warfare there so that player empires can fight NPC empires for territory and resources, but that's easier said than done
<Oveur> but we'll die trying as usual
<Traveler> Well, we could add kind of client side subfolders.
<Oveur> But don't delete your cache :D
<Traveler> This means you can define groups for the folders and the items will automaticly show up there
<Traveler> this would be similar to the overview type settings
<Oveur> The problems are serverside, but this is something we'd of course like to do and perhaps we can do it on the client
<Oveur> The cargo containers within Freighters is another issue entirely
<Oveur> And if I could just remember why it was an issue when Freighters were in development, it would be super!
<Oveur> In any case, I'll look into it
<Oveur> But don't delete your cache :D
<Traveler> This means you can define groups for the folders and the items will automaticly show up there
<Traveler> this would be similar to the overview type settings
<Oveur> The problems are serverside, but this is something we'd of course like to do and perhaps we can do it on the client
<Oveur> The cargo containers within Freighters is another issue entirely
<Oveur> And if I could just remember why it was an issue when Freighters were in development, it would be super!
<Oveur> In any case, I'll look into it
<Hammerhead> that sounds like a good place for the important non-combat missions ;-)
<Oveur> Yes there are, but more importantly, you'll also have chances to kill Freighters!
<Oveur> YAY o/
<Oveur> Yes there are, but more importantly, you'll also have chances to kill Freighters!
<Oveur> YAY o/
<Hammerhead> we're ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS watching the overall balance of the game
<Hammerhead> so it's likely that the missile changes could be tweaked in the future
<Oveur> we think in many cases missiles are better after the changes when you have the skills trained and start using the right missiles against the right target
<Hammerhead> what I'd personally like to see are some examples from players were they think there is an imbalance
<Oveur> Heavy missiles being mentioned a lot for example
<sir_tuxford> I'm already looking at heavy missiles damage
<Hammerhead> like "omg DOT of caracal sucks vs omen" with some actual numbers
<Oveur> well, I would have said "omgwtf ... "
<Oveur> but thats just me
<sir_tuxford> the system was needed though and it makes balancing missiles a lot easier
<Oveur> In general it was good, but there is lots of room for improvement
<Oveur> yeah, and we're now looking into specific cases with "X vs Y the DOT is Z etc."
<Hammerhead> we wanted this change in for at least a year since the turret changes came in
<Hammerhead> um
<Hammerhead> so it's likely that the missile changes could be tweaked in the future
<Oveur> we think in many cases missiles are better after the changes when you have the skills trained and start using the right missiles against the right target
<Hammerhead> what I'd personally like to see are some examples from players were they think there is an imbalance
<Oveur> Heavy missiles being mentioned a lot for example
<sir_tuxford> I'm already looking at heavy missiles damage
<Hammerhead> like "omg DOT of caracal sucks vs omen" with some actual numbers
<Oveur> well, I would have said "omgwtf ... "
<Oveur> but thats just me
<sir_tuxford> the system was needed though and it makes balancing missiles a lot easier
<Oveur> In general it was good, but there is lots of room for improvement
<Oveur> yeah, and we're now looking into specific cases with "X vs Y the DOT is Z etc."
<Hammerhead> we wanted this change in for at least a year since the turret changes came in
<Hammerhead> um
<Oveur> Yeah, that's a closet favorite of mine.
<Oveur> We have the EVE Combat Rating system which is based on ELO ranking
<Oveur> We also have a number of other ranking lists which are based on more fluffly stats
<Oveur> A lot of medals and certifications will also rely on systems like ranks and statistics
<Oveur> Especially factional warfare
<Oveur> lots of stuff coming up there.
<Oveur> We have the EVE Combat Rating system which is based on ELO ranking
<Oveur> We also have a number of other ranking lists which are based on more fluffly stats
<Oveur> A lot of medals and certifications will also rely on systems like ranks and statistics
<Oveur> Especially factional warfare
<Oveur> lots of stuff coming up there.
<Oveur> (That's assume "into cans")
<Oveur> And I also assume you mean into secure cans. No. Not at this point in time.
<Oveur> And I also assume you mean into secure cans. No. Not at this point in time.
<Oveur> Based on personal experience, you hit a brick wall at 100 and all corps getting further than that have my utmost respect. Keeping the assets in, the people coordinated and everybody busy is quite a feat
<Oveur> We seriously need the Contract system to help with management of corporations, and this not only benefits large corporations but also small corporations where you have less people online at a time or any of teh directors not in
<Oveur> Contract system also helps keep track of member participation in "missions" which you can set up as contracts and it enable you to do outsourced contracting to everyone or just trusted corps and alliances
<Oveur> We also need more general management tools, both ingame and out-of-game, corporate intranets for one
<Oveur> I've seen some really cool tools made by the various corps and alliances to help them manage themselves and I think those are really showing what tools are needed
<Oveur> We seriously need the Contract system to help with management of corporations, and this not only benefits large corporations but also small corporations where you have less people online at a time or any of teh directors not in
<Oveur> Contract system also helps keep track of member participation in "missions" which you can set up as contracts and it enable you to do outsourced contracting to everyone or just trusted corps and alliances
<Oveur> We also need more general management tools, both ingame and out-of-game, corporate intranets for one
<Oveur> I've seen some really cool tools made by the various corps and alliances to help them manage themselves and I think those are really showing what tools are needed
<Redundancy> isn't the legal proffesion based largely off the complexity of contracts between people? :)
<Oveur> That's what I used to say about 40 times before the Shiva launch until we had to take it out of the Shiva release :D
<Oveur> We've done countless iterations of it and we're still not happy with it
<Oveur> it's one of the most important systems that are going to hit EVE in the near future
<Oveur> its not the most sexy one, but it will have the biggest impact
<Oveur> problem is, getting it right and not some monster which nobody can use or see
<Oveur> It's going into Kali, in some form or another
<Oveur> That's what I used to say about 40 times before the Shiva launch until we had to take it out of the Shiva release :D
<Oveur> We've done countless iterations of it and we're still not happy with it
<Oveur> it's one of the most important systems that are going to hit EVE in the near future
<Oveur> its not the most sexy one, but it will have the biggest impact
<Oveur> problem is, getting it right and not some monster which nobody can use or see
<Oveur> It's going into Kali, in some form or another
<Redundancy> drunk is pretty easy
<Veritech> ooh, I'm looking forward to that, personally.
<kieron> Uhh, is that something you *really* want to see?
<Oveur> well, yeah
<Oveur> I heard Hammerhead was easy
<[WTFLOG]omgpie> Dev mudwrestling!
<Oveur> And don't forget the real quafe queen
<kieron> Besides, I think the significant others of the drunk Devs will have something to say about naked Devs in public
<Veritech> ooh, I'm looking forward to that, personally.
<kieron> Uhh, is that something you *really* want to see?
<Oveur> well, yeah
<Oveur> I heard Hammerhead was easy
<[WTFLOG]omgpie> Dev mudwrestling!
<Oveur> And don't forget the real quafe queen
<kieron> Besides, I think the significant others of the drunk Devs will have something to say about naked Devs in public
<[QT]omgrawr> Alright, that brings this devchat to a close.
<[QT]omgrawr> We would like to thank you all for attending and asking questions, and also thanks to CCP for giving up time from their busy schedules to talk to us, and I'd personally like to thank all the QTs for helping out.
<[QT]omgrawr> The log of this devchat is now posted at http://omgrawr.net/index.php?knowledge&op=show&id=220 ... speedy eh?
<[QT]omgrawr> Until the next time... omgbye!
<Redundancy> hmm. is strip dancing for isk against the eula? I'm a bit out of cash on my main.
<Oveur> Cya!
* Veritech waves 100M in front of red
<kieron> Thanks to the OMG rawr staff for hosting, the Devs for their answers, and the players for attending and their questions
<[QT]omgrawr> We would like to thank you all for attending and asking questions, and also thanks to CCP for giving up time from their busy schedules to talk to us, and I'd personally like to thank all the QTs for helping out.
<[QT]omgrawr> The log of this devchat is now posted at http://omgrawr.net/index.php?knowledge&op=show&id=220 ... speedy eh?
<[QT]omgrawr> Until the next time... omgbye!
<Redundancy> hmm. is strip dancing for isk against the eula? I'm a bit out of cash on my main.
<Oveur> Cya!
* Veritech waves 100M in front of red
<kieron> Thanks to the OMG rawr staff for hosting, the Devs for their answers, and the players for attending and their questions